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magna68 18 ( +1 | -1 )
Funny?... or just sad? -> www.chessbase.com

How often do you usually go to the toilet during a otb game? :-)

cheers
magna68
tag1153 83 ( +1 | -1 )
OMG That's hilarious.........and pathetic. I do have an interesting solution though.......For the rest of this match, I suggest the players chairs be replaced with toilets, and the time controls changed to 40 moves/10 flushes.


tag1153
Director of Marketing
Acme Toilet Paper Company
thunker 22 ( +1 | -1 )
Now isn't that strange! Well, maybe the poor guy has been eating the wrong things or has some illness. Or perhaps he just thinks better on the "throne"? haha.
Either way, tag's suggestion would seem to solve the problem! <grin>
muppyman 53 ( +1 | -1 )
of course, the fact that one of the combatants, who shall remain nameless to prevent identification, just happens to be trailing by two whole points at such an early stage, has no bearing whatsoever on the smear tactics and highly disguised innuendo being perpetrated by people whos motives are as pure as the driven snow. This whole situation is so puerile that I, for one, would almost be happy to see the offended side walk out and forfeit the so-called world championship. It would save the other un-named player the bother of finishing it off. :))
zenbum 100 ( +1 | -1 )
Maybe Kramnik is using Steve Jobs' relaxation technique: it was rumored that when he got stressed out at work he would go to the men's room, remove his shoes and socks, sit on a toilet tank with his bare feet in the bowl, and repeatedly flush. Apparently the sensation of running water on his tootsies helped clear his mind. If Kramnik is caught emerging from the men's room with one pants' leg rolled up and water squishing out of his socks, remember you heard it here first.

But so far the paranoia of this match is mild compared to some previous matches. Recall the 1978 Karpov-Korchnoi match, in which Korchnoi wore sunglasses to avoid being hypnotized and accused Karpov's team of using yogurt flavors to send coded messages. Or 1972, when Fischer accused the Spassky team of "beaming" bad moves into his mind.

Then again, we're only a third of the way through. Maybe things will get much more entertaining before it's over.
ccmcacollister 25 ( +1 | -1 )
WHAT ??? You mean there is NO BATHROOM MONITOR ?!
This would Never happen to Bobby !!
***
PS// Poor Kramnick, to be winning so Despite his, er, indispostion.
Surely if there is a CRAY in the adjacent booth, it would not take more than one trip per move??!
}B-D
ccmcacollister 219 ( +1 | -1 )
PS// SOLUTION : If a monitor acceptible to both parties and FIDE cannot be found; parabolic microphone! Would surely turnup anything untoward, and set poor Topo's mind at ease, as well as Kramnick's, er ...well skip that part. Just to say, surely both players would see the usefulness of this idea and benefit accordingly. yes? However, again a suitable monitor would need to be found, unless someone could present some comparative sound tracking to ID various phenomena, much like submariners use to differentiate the sounds of other submarines from those of frolicking Whales, what would simply compare graphically by computer, whatever varied and sundry sounds might eminate from within that sanctum, previously held sacred and involate to; indeed the last refuge of privacy unto the individual. ... But
lets face it; THIS is CHESS !!
Also, both players should be given access to the end product of such sound recording; in order that they may then acquire their own experts so as to promote
& disagreement, & maximize potential clouding of the final results.
This method, should probably become a Match Standard, with its delightful efficiency & saving of duplicated efforts on part of the participants. For from this
single addition to the customary match provision; now either or Both players can &
will have a readymade reason (aka Excuse) for having lost, or even just not Won Big-Enough in the match. Whether chosing to play the one end of the Bathroom Card, as evidence of unhealthiness (ala RJF: "I have never defeated a healthy opponent"), or of being subject to a wonderfully nefarious conspiracy, complete with sound track available for sale to Conspiracy Buffs everywhere . . . It simply
reeks of ingenuity, if not originality ... and may become known as the Great Equalizer, for use when facing an opponent who is 'Not in your league'. Just to be sure he is not in your bathroom either!
***
PPS// If there is not a Window convenient, then in lieu of a parabolica microphone, a serviceable microphone can be devised from any vibratory surface convenient. In this particular instance, the most obvious would be be the cardboard center-piece.

bunta 2 ( +1 | -1 )
do you think? Do you think he cheated?
mean_guy183 6 ( +1 | -1 )
Possibly I agree that Kramnik's behavior is very suspicious.
ganstaman 42 ( +1 | -1 )
I don't think he's cheating (apparently Topalov had a mate in 3 that they both missed in game 2, so if anyone is cheating they are doing it poorly). However, I do think that we all deserve some explaination of what's going on. I would feel much better about such a historic and important match if we could erase all doubts of any misconduct. And it's not too hard to explain yourself if you're not doing anything wrong.
bucklehead 30 ( +1 | -1 )
It WAS funny... ...but now I'm sitting here watching no live moves, Kramnik is sitting outside his locked bathroom, the clocks are running, and we're waiting for some sort of press conference. The mainstream media finally smells a good chess story, and we're all going to come out of this looking like idiots.
magna68 18 ( +1 | -1 )
At the toilet? Message at -> www.worldchess2006.com
Clock is started. Kramnik does not appear at the table. No moves made.
far1ey 15 ( +1 | -1 )
Game 5 Well apparently the game was canceled because of some arguement over the toilets! Canceled game at the FICS... :( Can't they just get on with it?!?!?!
peppe_l 129 ( +1 | -1 )
Somehow I am not surprised. It appears top chess players don't paticularly like playing chess these days. Organizing matches is almost impossible, with everyone having endless list of demands and conditions that must be met. Ever since Kasparov left FIDE (thanks to another political rift) it has been my impression that keeping one title has been more important than risking it for unified title. But finally, Kramnik and Topalov played chess - and very good chess, too!

Then the match is stopped because of...toilets.

My prediction:

- Both contenders refuse to continue the match
- Kramnik declares himself as champion, as he was leading the match with two wins
-- Having "defended" the title, he refuses to play again for 5 years
- Topalov declares himself as champion, as Kramnik forfeited the match
-- Having "won" the title, he refuses to play again for 5 years

- The rest of the top players compete for number 1 challenger status. As both Kramnik and Topalov refuse to play, the winner of candidates finals declares himself as champion
- The loser of candidates finals declares himself as chamnpion too
- I declare myself as champion, but refuse to defend my title because Staunton chess boards insult me by not matching the color of my favourite T-shirt



dokesa 27 ( +1 | -1 )
All these years and scheduled matches that never took place, I didn't believe a unified title would happen until the match actually started. It appears I should have changed my hope on the match being completed instead.
ionadowman 160 ( +1 | -1 )
Here's a solution... ... Forget about matches for the World Championship. I've long believed they are a poor measure of relative chessplaying strengths, and are often decided by things off the chessboard, such as one player's superior physical stamina. Well, I want to see the better chess win, not the worse chess lose (think about that).
And then they keep faffing around with the format: Return matches/no return matches; first to 10 ofr first to 6 (except that the holder doesn't have to reach 10 or 6); 24-game matches, 12-game matches ... Who needs it!
There is something about the head-to-head encounter that catches the imagination, I agree. But does it really work for chess? If you are going to have each side b****ing about coded yoghurt (I mean, come on!) and mind-altering beams (we have the technology!! Yeah, right), then we have introduced into the encounter garbage that has nothing to do with chess.
The World Chess Championship should be a tournament. The 1948 5-player, 5-round tournament might serve as some kind of model...
By the way, what is so sus about Kramnik visiting the throneroom 4 times in a few minutes, each visit of 1 minute's duration? He ain't going to be spending a lot of time examining the position on his miniature portable mind-enhancing programmable cybercoded chessset is he? Wouldn't remaining for the whole 13 minutes have been less suspicious (how long do you require to take a dump?)?
I understand Kramnik's health isn't that flash, neither. What was the complaint, and could it have affected his behaviour in this manner?
Cheers,
Ion
zenbum 77 ( +1 | -1 )
ionadowman writes:

"The World Chess Championship should be a tournament."

Before today, I would have argued vociferously that you're wrong about this. Now, I'm beginning to think you're right.

"I understand Kramnik's health isn't that flash, neither. What was the complaint, and could it have affected his behaviour in this manner?"

The most specific descriptions I've seen of Kramnik's illness are that it's a "rare form" of arthritis which can be very painful and debilitating. He's been undergoing treatment for a couple of years and it seems to be in remission. I don't know that arthritis would compel frequent visits to the toilet, but it's easy to imagine that whatever medication he's taking might.
ganstaman 56 ( +1 | -1 )
Kramnik or his manager has stated that he went to the bathroom because the restroom was too small, and he liked more space to pace to think about his moves. Also, he drank a lot of water. No mention of the illness that I could see. (according to the chessbase articles I read)

However, I don't see why you can't play the game of chess if you aren't allowed in that bathroom and instead have to share one with your opponent. Sitting by the bathroom waiting for it to be opened while forfeiting the game seems to me to be the wrong way to handle the situation. Let's hope things get fixed up tomorrow.
muppyman 29 ( +1 | -1 )
I have a heavy heart, with a strong premonition that this is going to escalate or deteriorate into the travesty of behaviour that we have seen so often, starting from 1972, and all it ever achieves is to bring the royal game into disrepute. In my view its disgraceful, disgusting and tragic.
muppyman 25 ( +1 | -1 )
and lastly, what in the world does all this atrocious childishness have to do with the noble and timeless game we all love so much? These men are supposedly the world's finest exponents of the game, when will we ever get to see them demonstrate that?
chilliman 31 ( +1 | -1 )
maybe Mr Kramnik's behaviour is not as sinister as some would think. he maybe afflicted with a type of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder brought on by pressure or nerves. does anyone know if this peculiar behaviour has only emerged recently or is it consistent with previous behavioural patterns?
ganstaman 40 ( +1 | -1 )
chilliman This is how Kramnik always was. In his match against Kasparov the same thing occurred, but then he was escorted to the bathroom by some official. Somehow, that didn't end up happening here. And as I explained before: "Kramnik or his manager has stated that he went to the bathroom because the restroom was too small, and he liked more space to pace to think about his moves. Also, he drank a lot of water."
zenbum 43 ( +1 | -1 )
The arrangements about rest rooms and toilets were worked out months ago and agreed to by both teams. Both areas are inspected before and after games, and electronic jamming signals are broadcast during the games. The only "suspicious" behavior is that Topalov waited until he was losing the match to object to these arrangements. Topalov is a sore loser and a big baby. Obviously Kramnik is the better player.
ganstaman 76 ( +1 | -1 )
zenbum Have you seen the games? Kramnik was not playing better than Topalov. He may be winning, but he hasn't proved superiority.

Also, Topalov was losing from the first game. So of course any objection from him would come when he's losing. He wasn't winning at any point. Unless you think he should have dealt with this before the match started? How was he to know in advance that Kramnik would visit the bathroom after every move?

Additionally, had he been winning, I doubt he would have complained. Afterall, if your opponent cheats or distracts your or disrespects you, and yet you're still winning, why would you care? This doesn't make him a sore loser in any way unless you simply don't like the man to begin with.
zenbum 114 ( +1 | -1 )
"Kramnik was not playing better than Topalov."

Kramnik beat Topalov in the first 2 games. After 4 games, the score was 3-1. I would call that better, by any reasonable definition of the word.

"This doesn't make him a sore loser in any way unless you simply don't like the man to begin with."

Before this whole toilet brouhaha, I was rooting for Topalov. I like his playing style and he seemed like a decent, amiable person. But now I've changed my opinion of him.

His allegations are nothing but a ruse by a desparate man who knows he's losing the match. The Appeals Committee should have ignored his complaints; Kramnik is absolutely right on this point. But the Appeals committee is composed entirely of FIDE officials who want to see Topalov win. Topalov has presented absolutely no concrete evidence of cheating by Kramnik. Furthermore, he shouldn't have been given the video tapes of Kramnik in the first place.

Topalov's strategy seems simple. He's apparently decided that he can't win by playing chess. So he's hoping to either scuttle the match entirely or rattle Kramnik psychologically. I'm sorry, but I can't admire someone who values winning above all else.
ccmcacollister 11 ( +1 | -1 )
Hey .... TOPALOV is the one with HIS bathroom window OPEN !
What's HE doing, passing MCO in and out? Pocket Fritz perhaps? AHA !
ionadowman 20 ( +1 | -1 )
For mine... The match is finished
Final result: Stupidity 1; Chess 0.
The usual outcome...
Maybe Topalov and Kramnik will play 6 or 8 more games, but as far as I'm concerned, they're both losers...
Pah-yuke!
far1ey 16 ( +1 | -1 )
ccmcacollister , and yet he still loses 2 games? Misses a mate in 3? I doubt Topalov is cheating.
brulla 50 ( +1 | -1 )
Kramnik might ... ... not be the superior player, but Topalov obviously lacked the precision that is necessary to convert a won position into the actual win. This was already said on chessbase, I think.
Apart from being 2 points in lead (even with 1 point, if the forfeit is maintained), Kramnik seems to me in the better position: he is able to defend slightly inferior positions with a great precision. He sits there and waits for Topalov to blunder... or he will win the match with this 1-point-lead.
brulla 17 ( +1 | -1 )
Gameknot in Elista? I wonder if there is no Kalmykian member of gameknot.com in Elista. Anybody who could give us first hand information.
Anybody considering a vacation trip to Elista?? ;)
ganstaman 380 ( +1 | -1 )
"Kramnik beat Topalov in the first 2 games. After 4 games, the score was 3-1. I would call that better, by any reasonable definition of the word."

Play through those games and tell me who looks good. I know blunders are a part of the game and too many blunders makes one bad, but you can't really think that Kramnik's level of play there is higher than Topalov's. Just look at the dominating position in game 2. Even if Kramnik didn't walk into a mate that they both missed, he was still in a very uncomfortable position.

Haven't you ever played a game where you were crushing your opponent, but somehow fell apart in a move or two and lost the game? You know you can outplay that opponent almost any time, but a blunder or two will give him the point. That doesn't make him a better chess player.

"Before this whole toilet brouhaha, I was rooting for Topalov. I like his playing style and he seemed like a decent, amiable person. But now I've changed my opinion of him.

His allegations are nothing but a ruse by a desparate man who knows he's losing the match. The Appeals Committee should have ignored his complaints; Kramnik is absolutely right on this point. But the Appeals committee is composed entirely of FIDE officials who want to see Topalov win. Topalov has presented absolutely no concrete evidence of cheating by Kramnik. Furthermore, he shouldn't have been given the video tapes of Kramnik in the first place.

Topalov's strategy seems simple. He's apparently decided that he can't win by playing chess. So he's hoping to either scuttle the match entirely or rattle Kramnik psychologically. I'm sorry, but I can't admire someone who values winning above all else."

This is just ridiculous. I've explained why Topalov did this when he was losing. He lodged a complaint with the Appeals Committee like he was supposed to. He didn't accuse Kramnik of cheating. When you take a test in school and the teacher doesn't let you go to the bathroom until you finish, is the teacher accusing you of cheating? No, the teacher simply doesn't want there to be any room for doubt. This is no different. Also, Topalov stated that he found it unsportsmanlike for Kramnik to take all his important decisions to the toilet. His complaint is legit. The Appeals Committee is at fault for turning that into all this.

If you're claiming corruption, then I probably shouldn't even debate. Conspiracy theorists are impossible to convince, so please tell me that you're not one of them.

Topalov shouldn't have gotten the tapes. Correct. And that he did is his fault? Whoever gave them out is at fault. Just like everywhere else, you're blaming Topalov for the actions of others. Just look back at what he personally did and you'll see he's still the great man you were once rooting for. The worst thing he did was enter into the psychological war, but if you think that's bad then you don't know a thing about top level chess. It's always included psychology. From Fischer's antics to Kramnik saying that he thought game 4 (?) should have been drawn in 2 hours and he didn't know why Topalov made it last longer since he just wanted to go home and watch soccer, to the head of the Russian Chess Federation directly accusing Topalov of cheating just before the match, the WC match included psychology. It would not have been an issue this time if not for the incompetency of the Appeals Committee. Which is why we should hate them and not Topalov.

Also note that this stuff wouldn't have been a problem had Kramnik played game 5 when he was supposed to. He could have gotten this stuff sorted out right after. Now instead, we have big issues to deal with. He helped make this into the mess that it is.
muppyman 111 ( +1 | -1 )
I wonder, if they could watch in detail all of Kramnik's visits to the toilet, they might be able to figure out which visit caused Topalov to overlook a simple checkmate.
I understand that all conditions of this match had been agreed to and that any changes would require the agreement of both parties. I think the two players should be engaged in the business of finding the real world champion, and the officials should not be frantically attempting to make that impossible. They have shamed the game and scarred F.I.D.E. credibility and should consider disqualifying themselves from any further participation in these proceedings. Let the title be decided across the board, dont inflict on the chess world another Fischer V Karpov non-event fiasco. Who cares what any of us think of either or both players, let them get on with playing and then let the puerile team arguments and accusations take place in an open field in northern Siberia next January, so the childish clowns can bare their chests and demand justice until the indescribable cold finally shuts them up.
muppyman 45 ( +1 | -1 )
breaking news, latest info says that the appeals commitee has resigned and until their replacements arrive their duties will be taken over by the president of F.I.D.E. alone. If they can solve the nonsense of the game 5 forfeit inflicted on Kramnik the match might proceed. The toilet has been unlocked (it should never have been locked, because Kramnik has been convicted of nothing except using it)
We live in hopes.
ccmcacollister 43 ( +1 | -1 )
far1ey Reports indicate that ... The Window was closed after being found! Mate in 3? How can a 2800 player, in a seperate league, Miss such a thing? So I'm inclined to agree, he must not be cheating now. :)
But dont get me wrong. I Like Topalov. He is my kinda Tal-like guy. And maybe he just wants to be known as another nutsy Fischer-like kinda guy too. But really, taking shots at a man with a bladder infection; it Just Too Much ... }8-)))
ccmcacollister 41 ( +1 | -1 )
Say ... I JUST realized We must be very careful now when saying WC ...
Since its gone from World Championship to WaterCloset.
***
I was going to suggest World Chess Championship be designed WCC but then again, there could be Water Closet Championship WCC as well. And I'm getting a little confused now. Can someone help solve this delimna? The WC-WCC !? Am I helping?
***
I can see why it might be best to stop the match now; Right down the drain, it tis...
ionadowman 22 ( +1 | -1 )
Craig... ...I think your last posting sums up this fiasco very well.
I suspect that henceforth this match will be forever known as the Water Closet Championship. Nice one.
Cheers,
Ion
ccmcacollister 164 ( +1 | -1 )
Ion .... Well I dunno for sure ... Over at chessanytimeDOTcom -> www.chessanytime.com
it's being called toiletgate . But thanks for your vote! :)
*** BTW ***
If I may inject a serious thought about the WCC (of your preference) ...
I've been thinking about your tournament for WC idea (aka WCT, okay?) . I've always thought it unworkable until now. Due largely to the opportunity for collusion within such an event. Players from one country or another teaming up, etc. I think that can be quite a determent.
Consider even with two players doing "teamwork" .... besides just the unwarranted draw that one might give the other ... the 2nd might also work for the first by how he plays other opponents. Eg, throwing a tactical melee vs his teammate's main contender if his winning would influence the outcome. Or maybe even just playing for a draw when the contender needs a win to beat his countryman. Etc. Just imagine if there were 4 or 5 from one place teaming up too.
***
BUT, how about if it were such that only one person per country were allowed to qualify for that WCT. And it should be a Double Round Robin too, imo. Not a Swiss!
There was another thing I cant remember right now, that I would require if I were designing it. But what do you think of the ideas? Would you agree about the risks ?
Even in the Interzonals of past, they only permitted two from one country in .
****
}8-)
***
PS// HOWEVER, this could present major problems in WC controls ?! And what if it is a double gender event. The ever present potential of the Polgar sisters for EG.

magna68 53 ( +1 | -1 )
Rebranding the worldchess page. Im happy to inform you that FIDE President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has just asked me to rebrand the former worldchess2006 site. Inspired by ccmcacollister confused thoughts about the WC I've already started the design and you can see the first iteration at my profile page. Any suggestions are welcome. For this work I will be paid the same amount as each vote did cost mister Kirsan to be reelected so he could finish to flush fide down the toilet (5k $). Im more interested in rat-races than chess these days. Wonder why...
tag1153 2 ( +1 | -1 )
BRILLIIANT PROFILE PIC!!!!! ROTFL magna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ionadowman 18 ( +1 | -1 )
Now... ...if we can just get a copy of magna68 his cartoon to the organisers and players at Elista...
And the world's Press, as well...
Delicious.
ketchuplover 2 ( +1 | -1 )
Game 6 is a draw.
loreta 17 ( +1 | -1 )
From Kramnik statement "High level functionaries inside FIDE once again were making the professional part of the chess world a disgraceful playground of their own interests"
zenbum 64 ( +1 | -1 )
Another Kramnik statement "I came to the conclusion of proceeding under protest because I do not want to disappoint the overwhelming majority of chess fans, which have been hoping for the unification for so many years."

I must say, I'm beginning to admire Kramnik more and more. After all the unethical attempts to rattle him, if he can now go on to win this match then there will be absolutely no doubt who the world champion is. On the other hand, if Topalov officially wins then we'll have a huge mess.

Either way, those who've been claiming that FIDE is too corrupt and incompetent to properly run top-level chess, now have additional persuasive evidence to back them up.
sualksnh 13 ( +1 | -1 )
Kramnik is a nice guy and that's why he will lose. Neither Kasparov nor Karpov let alone Fischer would have continued this match.
zenbum 36 ( +1 | -1 )
"Kramnik is a nice guy and that's why he will lose. Neither Kasparov nor Karpov let alone Fischer would have continued this match."

Then again, Kramnik beat Kasparov. Who beat Karpov. Who probably would have beaten Fischer. So perhaps Kramnik will win. And then the curse on nice guys will be broken. ;)
ccmcacollister 130 ( +1 | -1 )
Letter of Support from GM's A number of Grandmasters signed an open letter of support for Kramnick in regards to the handling of the claims and appeals in the WC match. Here are those GM's who signed the letter, which I first saw at FICGS, but apparently originated at ChessbaseDOTcom again, as so much does concerning the WC match. So I've included hyperlink to both those sources.
If you view at FICGS, it is at the bottom of the linked page ... following other commentaries that might be of interest too.
***
The last sentence of the letter does well to sum up the strength of the feelings behind it, in support of Kramnick. Declaring outright, that he deserves to win! }8-)
And the Closing of it pledging UNFAILING SUPPORT, by the GM signatories ! strong stuff !
***
-> www.ficgs.com

GM Joel Lautier
IM Almira Skripchenko
GM Viktor Korchnoi
GM Laurent Fressinet
GM Nigel Short
GM Alexandra Kosteniuk
GM Pavel Tregubov
GM Pentala Harikrishna
GM Yannick Pelletier
WGM Sophie Milliet
GM Lev Alburt
WIM Anna Hahn
GM Rustam Dautov
GM Yasser Seirawan
GM Emanuel Berg
GM Helmut Pfleger
WIM Olena Boytsun
GM Vladimir Barksij
GM Bartlomiej Macieja
IM Maxim Notkin
GM Alexander Baburin
GM Tony Kosten
GM Alexander Khalifman

-> www.chessbase.com
* * *

ccmcacollister 83 ( +1 | -1 )
Clarifying my last post; a more direct link here. My CHESSBASE link there actually goes to the HOME page of all match related items at that site. Below is a better link for seeing that letter specifically, and also another letter of support is on this same webpage below ... signed by yet another group of GM's, herein list now as well.
***
GM Jonathan Rowson (Scotland)
GM Peter Heine Nielsen (Denmark)
GM Magnus Carlsen (Norway)
GM Jan Gustafsson (Germany)
GM Tomi Nyback (Finland)
GM Luke McShane (England)
GM Loek Van Wely (Netherlands)

-> www.chessbase.com
***
}8-)
***
PS// And two additional GM's at that link wrote individual letters; one going so far
as to state GM Topalov has lost his moral right to be Champion. . . Some very powerfully written opinions, in all.
gfweiss 11 ( +1 | -1 )
The Truth be told... -> www.chessninja.com