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Posted by sf115 www6conf.org 2/28/2007 13:09:50 play online chess	Subject: beating the center counter/ scandinavian Message: whenever I play against the center counter/ scandinavian I always have trouble getting an advantage. Can I have suggestions on how to gain an advantage?
Posted by raskerino www6conf.org 2/28/2007 15:20:04 play online chess	Message: are you talking about 2... Qxd5 lines or 2... Nf6 lines? Or, perhaps both?
Posted by tag1153 www6conf.org 2/28/2007 17:30:52 play online chess	Hey sf115 Message: I play the Scandi a LOT (prob 80+% of my games against 1. e4). If you would like to play a game with commentary shoot me a challenge. tag1153
Posted by sf115 www6conf.org 3/01/2007 12:57:54 play online chess	Message: I am mainly talking about the 2...Qxd5 variations but if anyone has any other suggestions other than 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 I would be gratefull. thanks for the offer tag1153 but I'm not allowed any more games yet. I'll send you a message when I can
Posted by sf115 www6conf.org 3/01/2007 12:58:51 play online chess	Message: is it the center counter or the scandanavien?
Posted by lynvingen www6conf.org 3/01/2007 13:28:46 play online chess	Message: Sf115, Two names for the same opening...
Posted by spurtus www6conf.org 3/02/2007 03:10:09 play online chess	ideas... Message: if you dislike the scandi, one idea (and sorry to keep banging on about this opening)... but as white you can try to transpose into Blackmar Diemer Gambit 1. e4 d5 2. d4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Nxf3 Failing that if you do wish to beat the scandi ( I used to play it a lot as black ) the thing I always hated most was a player that would develop Nf3 early. ( if they didn't I usually found early attacking chances ) 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. Nf3 Also chasing the queen on a5 is usually a waste of time, a good scandi player will see any traps to constrict the queen in her new headquarters. However if Nc6 is played rather than the more common c6 it might be possible to do some harrassment usually forcing the queen to the other wing. Black gets the best game usually when castling queenside and the rook comes into the game fast. Best white plan is to play safe & solid, castle quick to get the king out of the centre and watch for sharp lines even very early on. Spurtus.
Posted by sf115 www6conf.org 3/03/2007 11:23:56 play online chess	Message: isn't 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. Nf3 the main line?
Posted by far1ey www6conf.org 3/03/2007 14:45:17 play online chess	Message: My friend 'discovered' 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. b4!? Qxb4 5. Rb1 Interesting, white gambits a pawn to attack the exposed queen. White plans to swing the rook into the attack via Rb5 (gaining more time).
Posted by bonsai www6conf.org 3/04/2007 02:00:16 play online chess	Why deviate from good mainlines? Message: The main line is 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4.d4 and is simply a little bit better for white. 4...Nf6 is then alright (while 4...c6 is exceedingly passive) when white has 5.Bd2 or 5.Nf3 (other moves are inferior, e.g. 5.Bc4 Bg4 is at least equal for black). 5.Bd2 is quite an interesting and little explored variation that seems to offer interesting chances to white. 5.Nf3 has the main line status, when there is either 5...c6, 5...Bg4 or 5...Ne4 (the latter is a bit dubious though). 5...c6 6.Bd2 Bf5 7.Bc4 (7.Ne4 Qb6 8.Nxf6 is also interesting) 7...e6 8.Nd5 Qd8 9.Nxf6 Qxf6 10.Qe2! a quite tedious for black, he has basically no winning chances, while white can try and see whether he can get a win or not. There have been some tries by GM Prie to show that black is not losing, but that seems to be the maximum of what he can aspire to. 5...Bg4 6.h3 Bh5 (Bxf3 gives black a somewhat passive position, but is fairly solid. I think recently it had some "mild" popularity and I just saw it played in a leage match this weekend). 7.g4 Bg6 8.Ne5 has a reputation as a little bit better for white, last I hear nothing much has changed about that verdict after 8...e6, while 8...Nbd7 has recently been analyzed in the Over the Horizons column on chesscafe.com.
Posted by sf115 www6conf.org 3/04/2007 06:29:51 play online chess	Message: is 4. d4 or 4. Nf6 better?
Posted by spurtus www6conf.org 3/04/2007 07:18:35 play online chess	Message: I cant tell if the move order of playing BOTH these moves matters?...can anybody confirm?... but playing d4 immediately is more popular. if playing d4, the anderssen counter gambit 4...e5 is 'fun' and sometimes trappy for black but more often than not solid play by white will refute it. Spurtus.
Posted by bonsai www6conf.org 3/04/2007 13:42:21 play online chess	Message: 4.d4 offers extra options, particularly against 4...c6 (but also 4...Nf6 Bd2). 4.Nf3 does not really offer any options that you don't have with 4.d4 (in fact black could at least consider 4...Bg4 after Nf3). The move only fits in with the d2-d4 set-ups, it does not make any sense combined with d3 (then the knight is usually better on e2) or with g3 (one usually wants to wait before comitting the knight to avoid certain black options), so Nf3 does not have any independent value. The main moves with some independent ideas are 4.Bc4 (quite interesting and somewhat tactical), 4.g3 (very posititional, but also not bad) or 4.b4 (pretty much unnecessarily sacrificing a pawn, white has some compensation, but why go for something this unclear when there are many other good and a few very good options?).
Posted by far1ey www6conf.org 3/05/2007 00:37:34 play online chess	Message: Good point bonsai. The Scandi mainlines offer good positions for white anyways... sf115, I dont think it would be terribly hard to get an advantage with either d4, Nf3. Just remember that at the worst you end up with an equal postition so all cant be bad... So really you cant lose against the Scandi... In theory anyways...
Posted by sodiumattack www6conf.org 3/05/2007 00:54:57 play online chess	I really agree... Message: ... with bonsai. The best way to play against the Scandinavian defense is to play main lines, develop quietly without looking for an immediate advantage! In a Pachman's book (original title “Eröffnungspraxis im Schach”), he presents the line 2. ... Qxd5 saying that white can gain a tempo with 3. Nc3 and other tempos threatening black's queen. For these reasons Scandinavian is not played frequently nowadays (Pachman). Anyway, Scandinavian is not a bad or wrong defense, and white, although the tempos gained, has not to play in order to gain an immediate advantage or to show that 2. ... Qxd5 is not a good move. Just play the main lines and develop your pieces, and you will have nothing to fear playing against this opening... not more than playing against others! :)
Posted by sf115 www6conf.org 3/05/2007 12:36:08 play online chess	Message: what about 3...Qd8 or Qe5+ or Qf5 or Qe6+
Posted by far1ey www6conf.org 3/05/2007 15:47:25 play online chess	Message: Qd8 is not as good as Qa5 but it is playable. All the other are just inaccurate and simply misplace the queen. You can either force it around somehow or else just develop and black will have to waste another move getting the queen into a decent position.
Posted by arichallan www6conf.org 3/05/2007 19:26:43 play online chess	...don't forget Qd6 Message: Although riskier than Qa5, it seems to be playable, or at least unrefuted at this point. As for playing against any of the moves, you should 1. keep it simple, 2. remember that Black is the one that has something to prove, and 3. play lines that you are comfortable with. White has multiple options that should give better than equality, so you should find a good line, and play it, which is the best way to learn any opening. One method is to find a good repertoire book, and play the suggested lines. Another is simply to look up games by masters or grandmasters, and see what they play - especially if you have a favorite player that has 1.e4 in his/her repertoire.
Posted by daverundle www6conf.org 3/12/2007 14:54:58 play online chess	Message: I have had quite a lot of success as black playing the line 1 e4 d5 2 exd5 Qxd5 3 Nc3 Qd6!? Usually white plays 4 d4 Nf6 5 Nf3 a6. Whites best move then appears to be 6 Bd3
Posted by sf115 www6conf.org 3/14/2007 13:51:13 play online chess	Message: how do you beat it?
Posted by arichallan www6conf.org 3/14/2007 18:32:24 play online chess	Message: If I knew how to beat the Scandinavian, I'd probably write a nice, expensive book on the subject. If you do some research on recent Grandmaster games with the Scandi, you'll probably be able to figure out the most testing lines on your own. As far as I know, the Qd6 line is best met by delaying the development of the King's Knight and playing g3, planning a fianchetto and to hit the Queen with Bf4. Knowing how to best meet all the lines, specific move orders, White plans and ideas are all subjects to research, because I cannot possibly do them justice in a single post. All that can really be done here is give you some direction. Some websites you can try are chesscafe.com, jeremysilman.com, chesspublishing.com, and game collection websites like chesslab.com and chessgames.com. You might also look in the gameknot database for most-played lines.
Posted by far1ey www6conf.org 3/14/2007 22:36:22 play online chess	Message: "how do you beat it?" We have already explained. White allways comes out with advantage after the opening. Therefore simply 'play' accumalating small advantages as per a normal opening and win. The worst you can do in the scandi is draw... Theoretically... Lines like Bc4 0-0 Bd2 Qe2 Rad1 Rfe1 and you cant go wrong.
Posted by spurtus www6conf.org 3/17/2007 12:45:06 play online chess	Message: far1ey , I will second that, I tried the scandi versus a master in a simul and thats exactly what they did! my opponent only had a small pawn structure advantage at move 40 or so but when pieces get exchanged easily its enough. Spurtus.
Posted by sf115 www6conf.org 3/18/2007 14:26:00 play online chess	Message: are there any traps in the "scandi"
Posted by bonsai www6conf.org 3/19/2007 11:57:40 play online chess	Message: yes
Posted by raskerino www6conf.org 3/19/2007 12:23:42 play online chess	A fun trap Message: Here's a trap though it's in the 2... Nf6 variation: 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 (the portuguese gambit) 4.f3 (the only move to hold the pawn, and maybe the only one to go for the advantage) Bf5 5.c4 e6 6.dxe6 Nc6! 7.exf7+ Kxf7 (actually this is a great square for the king) 8.Be3 Bb4+ 9.Nc3 Re8 10.Kf2 Rxe3!! 11.Kxe3 Nxd4! 12.Qxd4 Qe7+ and black wins a queen by either pinning it to the king with a rook or a bishop. Note that 12.Kxd4 Rd8+ wins it too. If white avoids losing the queen with 13.Kf4 (after Qe7+) Bd6+ 14.Kxf5 Qe6+ 15.Kg5 h6 16.Kh4 g5# ka-ching!
Posted by far1ey www6conf.org 3/20/2007 00:05:48 play online chess	Message: There arent too many that I know of although Pandolfini's Book Chess Traps and Zaps (?) something like that anyways which has a few traps. Will have to reborrow that book from the library... However against the scandi its useful too look out for any Bd2 discoveries on the a5 queen especially if black hasnt played c6 (giving the queen a square on c7. And there are a number of Bxf7+ traps too. Sorry I dont know much more...
Posted by spurtus www6conf.org 3/20/2007 09:32:00 play online chess	Here is a good scandi trap Message: managed to get it a couple of times! 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qa5 4. d4 e5 5. dxe5 Bb4 6. Bd2 Nc6 7. a3 Nd4 ... I'll let you work it out... Spurtus.
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