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| From | Message | Posted by ccmcacollister
www6conf.org
4/02/2008
08:26:16
Play online chess |  Subject: Paul Morphy ...
Message:
Apparently there has been differing info out there about Morphy. I recall dimly reading a CHESS LIFE article a couple decades ago, and a hodge-podge of articles or book sections/mentions over time (probably before that, mostly).
I do recall seeing one somewhere after that where it showed his gravesite, which was not in good shape.
MY questions are:
Have you seen something you considered the definitive work on Morphy?
Or if not that, anything you felt was good, or interesting, etc. Or Bad & erroneous.
Or Anything at all.
I do like Morphy. Let's not forget I'm the one who heard them say he would not stand a chance playing anyone in the FIDE TOP 100, and called it wrong. (Surely if they fear the tactics of Chess computers, even Unbooked Engines it has been suggested, the tactics of Morphy could score some points? The player Fischer called The Most Accurate in History? )
Question 2, or was 4, 5?
Well just any comments you have on Morphy etc ... let's hear it. EG Do you think He could never score on a Top 100 FIDE player? In otherwords, in seems, could neither
score on a Fritz? Or Rybka? Or maybe a DEEP DEEP Something? :)
| Posted by ionadowman
www6conf.org
4/02/2008
12:31:49
Play online chess | My own take on Morphy...?
Message:
Given the knowledge he had available to him in his own day, he wouldn't cut it in today's FIDE top 100. He would just be out-theoried. Recall that he was prepared to play a line like this in the Philidor's Defence: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d3 3.e4 f5... The thing was theory in 1860; rather discredited now.
Given today's knowledge, or even perhaps it were made available to him, Morphy would be up there with the best, I reckon: top 20 at least. So would, in my view, Adolf Anderssen, his greatest contemporary.
I have a feeling Anderssen came unprepared (and out of practice) into the match with Morphy. Winning the first game with the White pieces (... with 1.a3 e5?! 2.c4 - a positional win, not the style we usually associate with Anderssen) may not have helped, either.
Although Anderssen took his defeat in good part, he did make a comment later that one can not preserve one's skill level without actually playing. A match with Anderssen at the peak of his form would have been something to watch!
I gather Anderssen's 1866 match with Steinitz was just such a slugfest 6-8 with no draws! Steinitz took an early 4-1 lead, Anderssen drew level, to 4-all, 5-all, 6-all before Steinitz took out the final 2 games.
It's a pity of the world that Morphy dropped out of the Chess scene. Americans tend to blame Howard Staunton, but Staunton had pretty much retired from chess quite a while before, so it's hard to see that it would have been much of a match. They did play against each other in a consultation game, which suggests maybe too much is made of the alleged rivalry between the two. Morphy and partner won the game.
Leaving that aside, imagine the sort of games Morphy might have had with the likes of Steinitz, Zukertort, Gunsberg, Winawer, Mason and Blackburne; then later on Lasker, Tchigorin, Tarrasch; not to mention renewed battles against his contemporaries who continued their own chess careers: Louis Paulsen and H.E.Bird.
Morphy was a chess great in his own day, with the potential to be greater still - just as Fischer was last century - and, born 150 years later, would have been great in our day too.
I reckon,
Ion
| Posted by ccmcacollister
www6conf.org
4/02/2008
13:50:50
Play online chess | ionadowman ...
Message:
Do you think he would lose to Everyone in the top 100?? (How about the guy that lost to Fritz?)
How many times would Morphy lose to that discredited line? Where would he be after one year of theory study? Or perhaps even spectating one modern FIDE tournament?
Fischer played only a handful of openings most of his career ... surely Morphy has Somehing in his repetiore that would hold up?!
I know its all opinion and unprovable. But don't you find these interesting Questions at least? :)
———
Krush Is US Women's Chess Champion; Playoff Will Decide US Junior — Irina Krush, 26, won the United States Women’s Championship on Monday by defeating Abby Marshall, 19, in the final round of the chess tournament. Krush finished with 8 points. It is Krush’s third title. She previously won in 1998 and 2007. For winning this time, she earned $16,000. Krush’s principal rival, Anna Zatonskih, 32, the 2009 champion, who was tied with Krush before the final round, could only draw against Sabina Foisor, 20. She finished with 7.5 points and tied for second with Tatev Abrahamyan, 22, who beat Katerina Rohonyan, 26. Zatonskih and Abrahamyan each earned $10,500. Krush’s win over Marshall was not easy. Marshall, playing in her first U.S. Chess Championship, had ...
Posted by chessnovice
www6conf.org
4/02/2008
16:28:32
Play online chess | ...
Message:
I see where ionadowman is coming from when he says that Morphy wouldn't match up to the modern FIDE top 100, but that has much to do with the fact that their knowledge is founded upon some of the groundwork that Morphy had built. Certainly, I agree that the top 100 FIDE players (knowing what they know right now) would be able to beat Morphy (knowing just what was available then).
But it is more appropriate to believe that the two players should have an equal playing field. Morphy was innovative, whereas not everyone in the FIDE top 100 is. If he had the resources of today (or conversely, the FIDE top 100 were only taught by the resources of Morphy's time), I'm sure Morphy would do quite well.
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Mamedyarov Leads in Dortmund — Shakhriyar Mamedyarov of Azerbaijan took over the lead of the elite Sparkassen Chess-Meeting tournament in Germany on Sunday after he drew his game while his co-leader, Ruslan Ponomariov of Ukraine, lost. Mamedyarov has 3 points after four rounds, Ponomariov has 2.5, Le Quang Liem of Vietnam, who beat Ponomariov, has 2, and Vladimir Kramnik of Russia, the defending chess champion, Peter Leko of Hungary and Arkadij Naiditsch of Germany are tied for last with 1.5 points each. The standings are startling as Kramnik, Leko and Naiditsch are all previous champions in Dortmund, while the top three players have never won there. Mamedyarov faced Vladimir Kramnik of Russia, the defending chess ...
Posted by ganstaman
www6conf.org
4/02/2008
17:19:36
Play online chess |
Message:
ionadowman: "Given the knowledge he had available to him in his own day, he wouldn't cut it in today's FIDE top 100. He would just be out-theoried. Recall that he was prepared to play a line like this in the Philidor's Defence: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d3 3.e4 f5... The thing was theory in 1860; rather discredited now."
Topalov played the Cochrane Gambit against Kramnik and drew, so playing a discredited opening alone wouldn't be enough for him to lose.
Plus, from what I've seem of Morphy, he could figure out the best moves even without knowing that it's theory.
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Viktor Laznicka seals runaway World Open victory — The World Open in Philadelphia has been staged annually since the early 1970s, and although it has never quite justified its grandiose title it is still a huge magnet for chess players from grandmasters to novices. It is a big money event, with high entry fees but first prizes of several thousand dollars even for weaker sections. Its continued success reflects a ruthless policy by the organisers towards rating cheats, coupled with a highly flexible schedule. The final rounds are on Independence Day, but it is possible to compete anywhere between three and seven days and to re-enter if you start badly. For GMs in the top section, it can be a vicious battle. They normally get a minimum ...
Posted by ionadowman
www6conf.org
4/03/2008
00:29:49
Play online chess | Well, there you go!
Message:
I didn't know it had been tried in modern times. I still reckon Morphy wouldn't be competitive given what he knew (and no more) in his own day. And he was capable of being outplayed: Anderssen did in the first match game (or at least the first in which Anderssen had White. True, Morphy returned the compliment 7 times over...
But Craig raises a point, as in a way does ganstaman, and it is something I hinted at myself. If Morphy, having recovered his enthusiasm for the game and been magicked from 1862 into the present day, had the theory available to him to watch, read, figure out, learn, we're in altogether different country. Given the motivation, of course, he would start out looking pretty rusty and then afetr a while - probably not even a long while - he'd be giving anyone a run for their money.
Mind you, convincing tournament organizers and sponsors that he was the real deal might take some doing. That would probably be the biggest hurdle to overcome...
;-)
Ion
———
Endgames, part 1: Rook against Bishop — A superb lesson from Magnus Carlsen in endgame technique. It's been a while since we looked at the endgame, so this week we begin a short series on this often neglected area with a terrific demonstration of endgame technique from the ever-improving chess world No 1 Magnus Carlsen. Although White has the advantage of rook against bishop, Black has an extra pawn and a solid position on the chess board. How did Carlsen make progress? RB I'm pretty sure the answer lies in g4. The question is whether to nudge the pawn forward immediately or whether some preparation is needed first, perhaps exchanging on d5 or advancing the king to e3. The only way is concrete calculation, so let's see what ...
Posted by lighttotheright
www6conf.org
4/03/2008
14:20:52
Play online chess |
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With time Paul Morphy could hold his own against top players in the world, but not immediately. He would need time to catch up a little bit upon theory. It is a little unfair to compare his play with modern world class Grandmasters. Morphy is one of those early masters whose advances in chess theory has allowed some of the world's greatest 20th century GMs to even exist. Many others built upon his discoveries...and still others built upon those others. Let's face it. Morphy would need to catch up. But his basic ability was just incredible.
I remember years ago analysing some of his games with earlier (but still very strong--even master strength) computer programs. His play was clearly much better than those (at the time) modern computers. With that kind of ability (with no previous modern theory to help), I shudder at the thought of how strong he could be with all the chess knowledge of a modern world class Grandmaster!
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Dortmund Begins — The Sparkassen Chess-Meeting (an odd name, to be sure) began Thursday in Dortmund. Though the chess tournament is not at the level of Linares or Corus, it still attracts top players, notably Vladimir Kramnik, the former world chess champion from Russia. Kramnik has been associated with Dortmund, as the chess event is often referred to, for many years because he has won the tournament nine times, far more than any other. He first won it in 1995 and is the defending champion this year. The tournament is a double-round robin this year, meaning each competitor plays all the others twice, once with each color. In addition to Kramnik, the No. 4 chess player in the world, the field includes ...
Posted by cascadejames
www6conf.org
4/03/2008
23:01:28
Play online chess | Craig
Message:
"The Immortal Game: A History of Chess" by David Shenk, has a short section on Morphy, but more important for your purposes, it has a bibliography with source references. I merely skimmed this book some time ago when I checked it out of the library, so I can't help you with the details, but I think the bibliography had some references to info on Morphy, and it might help you find your definitive sources.
| Posted by ketchuplover
www6conf.org
4/04/2008
05:41:25
Play online chess |
Message:
I think if Morphy could stay equal after a dozen moves he'd do quite well.
| Posted by fmgaijin
www6conf.org
4/04/2008
11:21:55
Play online chess | The Definitive Biography
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Paul Morphy, The Pride and Sorrow of Chess by David Lawson 426 pp. London: McKay, 1976.
| Posted by cascadejames
www6conf.org
4/04/2008
13:06:16
Play online chess | Morphy on Amazon
Message:
I did a search on Amazon.com for "Paul Morphy" and somewhat to my surprise it returned over 2
dozen books about him and his games. Some are recent; some are out of print; at least one may
have been written by a relative, "Charles Morphy."
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