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Posted by kansaspatzer www6conf.org 6/07/2008 14:03:34 play online chess	Subject: Philidor Position? Message: Recently I studied the Philidor and Lucena Positions. Although the Lucena is straightforward enough, I understand the basics of the Philidor but am not sure about how to apply it in an actual game situation or when exactly it comes up. I just finished this game, and I think that around move 66 I missed a chance to utilize this drawing resource. Can anybody tell me if I did? gameknot.com
Posted by bonsai www6conf.org 6/07/2008 15:23:12 play online chess	Message: You are right you reached Philidor's position (or something very much like it) several times and could have drawn easily. The position 60.Rxf4 should be an easy draw, not sure why you gave away your f6 pawn, even so it was all still easily drawn, because your king was on the promotion square. With 67...Ra6+ you nicely set up a third (sixth) rank defence (=Philidor's position) which easily holds the draw. 69...Ra7 is still a draw, but why bother with taking the rook of the 6th rank?? Just wait until his pawn has advanced far enough to not give his king any place to hide from checks and then go to the first rank and check him. In the same sense 71...Ra6 was the right move. 71...Ra5 looses - white could have played 72.Kf6, but he missed that, after 72.Rh7 you could once more have held it with 72...Ra6. After missing that the defence became more complicated. 75...Re1 would still have drawn for black, but it's harder to do. 75...Kf8 looses. However white doesn't really know what he's doing 77.Ra5 is a pointless move that throws away the win, the rook is great on the 8th rank and one should just play 77.Kd6 to advance the pawn (and if Rd1+ then Ke7). After 86...Kf7 you've once more got a nice third rank defence, but you once more go for the wrong kind of continuation with 87...Ra5 and this time white punishes it properly and doesn't let the win slip away, again.
Posted by kansaspatzer www6conf.org 6/08/2008 02:04:22 play online chess	Message: Thanks for the detailed analysis. A pure Philidor position, then, is reached when the pawn is on the sixth rather than fifth rank? That is what had thrown me off - once I was at move 70 or so, I assumed that I had already missed my chance.
Posted by marinvukusic www6conf.org 6/08/2008 02:31:49 play online chess	Wikipedia is your friend Message: en.wikipedia.org Much better than asking on a forum IMHO
Posted by bonsai www6conf.org 6/08/2008 02:49:14 play online chess	Message: The position with your king on/next to the promotion square, your rook on the 6th rank as black (or 3rd rank as white) and his pawn on the 5th rank is what is called Philidor's position (or the third rank defence). The way to draw it is to keep the rook on the 6th (3rd) rank until he advances the pawn beyond to the 6th rank, then the rook goes to the first (8th) rank and keeps checking the king.
Posted by ionadowman www6conf.org 6/08/2008 17:54:26 play online chess	marinvukusic - Message: -... but asking on the forum is much more fun. bonsai's responses look pretty good to me, at that. Cheers, Ion
Posted by marinvukusic www6conf.org 6/09/2008 04:35:02 play online chess	Yeah, but... Message: ... Wikipedia has really excellent chess articles, much better than anything any of us might write on the forum. So that should be the first resource IMHO. Of course if the purpose of the topic is fun that forum is better :)
Posted by ionadowman www6conf.org 6/09/2008 12:57:41 play online chess	Marin... Message: ... I certainly have no quarrel with the Wikipedia article(s) in question, having followed up the link you gave earlier. And, aware of these now, one has an easily accessible (and readable) on-line resource for the questions raised here. But maybe I shouldn't have said "fun" - rather that a discussion of the question is a more ... social way of exploring the topic. Here, it is a more engaging way of studying this kind of endgame. Cheers, Ion
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